Very interesting article. I use AI - Chat GPT as a thinking, brainstorming and planning tool. But it's not very good at producing readable, engaging content. And I dread the day all musicians are out of business and AI is churning out pop and jazz and classical music. It could happen. And if it does, it will be a death knell to our culture, our civilization.
Yeah, well, I don't know. So far, the way I use AI has been extremely useful and fun to use. But yeah, I see big problems in the future. Technology is a blessing and a curse. The use of smart phones by children is a huge problem. Nobody is talking to their friends face-to-face. I'm 72 and will probably not see how it all turns out. I pray we can tap our creativity and innovation to harness it for a better world. But if nobody needs humans to do work anymore, this thing could backfire on us in a major way.
I watch Star Trek that gives a lot of hope for the future. They use AI a lot on Star Trek and it seems to help them get more complete information, make decisions and fly faster-than-light spaceships. I would like to see it help streamline things in government. Things cost too much and take too long. Good AI systems could give a better bang for our buck and enable us to do more projects at a lower cost.
i'm in my late 60's, but stay the hell away from stuff that i know deep down is no good.. it is not that AI couldn't be good, but in these megalomaniacs hands - it is bad shit.. refer to ted gioias article on 'dopamine culture' for another insight into it all.. it isn't all it is cracked up to be and our leaders are selling us down the river...
Look, I want to push back on this a bit. I started my business as an independent consultant 40 years ago. I can't imagine I could have achieved the success I did without technology. Computers, databases, the internet, etc. I was able to do a zillion of things by myself that would have taken a team of people to do. Because of the help from technology, I succeeded on my own. If I was starting a business now, I would go ALL-In on AI and find every single way I could use it to add value to my clients. I would still work very hard. But I'd have the tools to work harder and smarter. If I was a musician I'd also use AI to help me with composing, planning, marketing, etc. So, I hope that's the way it goes – that AI will be a great support to all kinds of people and businesses. We all tend to look at the dark side – and there is a dark side, but I think the positives may outweigh the negatives. I could be wrong, but I hope I'm right. AI is just a tool. (and no, ChatGPT did not help me write this!)
i admire your idealism, but i don't share it... all of these things are just tools - yes... in the wrong hands it is much worse... go see the oppenheimer movie for an example.. cheers..
You may be right. On the other hand, I think everyone wants this to work for humanity as a whole. I just bought a new Mac Studio that runs faster and better than any previous Mac. My last one, a Power Mac that I bought 13 years ago cost $2500. I'm assuming AI had something to do with the development of these new, faster and cheaper chips. I am not an idealist. I am an optimist. I assume most people want to do good. And yeah, I get it. Multinational businesses all want to save a lot of money and get filthy rich. And they vote for Trump. Anyway, the question might be, "What can we do about this issue?" vs. moaning and complaining.
thanks... big money is driving AI.. they are to be distrusted right out of the gate, and yet a lot of folks will get sucked into the glossy readouts on it - again, a byproduct of 'big money'.... i would like to crap on all of it because that is what i think of it..
"But why we need a new technology to produce mediocrity, he didn’t explain."
I guess their comeback would be "well, it will get better over time once it gains the experience". But, why is that important at all? Can't they just leave music alone, and let the people using it try and fail on their own for a while? If only to preserve skilled musicians (like yourself) craft? Why anyone would settle for mediocrity baffles the mind. For pop music, I don't really care and I doubt the listener of such music would either. But, with a few prompts similar to "please make me 5 full-length albums with the only inspiration coming from that of The Velvet Underground", this is going to be extremely possible someday, and I don't think it'll be very far into the future. I shuddered and nearly vomited when I heard about the plan to "finish" and release the last remaining Beatles song. I haven't listened, and I hope I never accidentally hear it.
Just as Robert Middleton said in his reply "it could happen". I beg to differ here: it is GOING to happen. And much sooner than we expect it to.
And Robert is also correct on it being a death knell to our culture.
Thanks for your post. I cringe when I hear people say they use "AI" to do any thinking for them. This is different from using a tool. Instead, if we think less, then we are becoming less human.
In the midst of big tech trying their best to take creative power out of the hands of ALL creators and artists, I try to remind myself that, whether the big money is behind it or not, and whether people can actually make a living or not, artists will not stop creating.
Music and art have never been inherently about money or even survival - in so many ways it's about trying to find meaning, justify existence, or simply connecting with others in/out of our own personal worlds - and none of those things will be solved with AI. It feels like it is actively attacking all of these reasons for art, but while the "economics" of being a musician or artist continue to get worse, WE WILL KEEP ARTING AND MUSICING.
As depressed as I am about the state of the world, tech, and the "next generation," I have faith that those deep human needs will continue to find ways to flourish. Whether they are valued at the top or not... A shame that the masses may not prosper, but I believe there will be pockets of humanity that carry the torch and help give each other meaning through artistic expression.
When I get to hang with some younger musicians, actors, artists (I'm 34 but I can def feel the gap between me and 21) I feel mostly encouraged. I hope more and more of us disconnect and only engage with tech in ways that actually serve us. Take the power back.
the thing is - if you are into creating music - this will continue regardless if the money follows or not... i love playing and writing music.. i'm not stopping in spite of the money that does or doesn't follow... i feel like our society has been hallowed out with this obsession and preoccupation with money... instead of it being a medium for exchange, it has gotten all out of whack with the middle people who want it to be the center of everything.. not everyone is into the game of monopoly but it has gotten so bad with these freaks money game obsession, they will stop at nothing to screw everyone else who isn't obsessed the same way they are... music is still a voice for freedom in spite of these freaks... they will do everything they can to ruin that too, but they won't succeed.. our culture may look worse in 20 years then it does now though.. we will be able to thank AI's role for that and those who pushed it too..
Succinctly and well put: it's uncritical cheerleading and relentless optimism that has put us in this mess, we need the tech community to be having serious thoughtful conversations about what the real and long term implications of their work might be on the world.
Of all the things I’ve heard/seen/read/thought/said about AI, this is probably the most profound and insightful observation yet. It clicks everything into place for me.
Your posts always give me a follow-up idea. I wonder: will generative AI ever experience a headache? Maybe the jump from mediocre to great requires the occasional headache. Its inability to comprehend irony feels somehow related - neurons wired for Up and to the Right optimization rather than whatever ours are wired for...
So Machover sort of liked the emotionless sample of music he played? I'm reading this Almanach entry on July 9, so I'm a bit late to the party. But did you read the New Yorker piece about the singer-songwriter Lizzy McAlpine?. She said it wasn't until her third album that she actually recorded live with a band. "Finally being in a room with people who are real, and in the same room, and we're recording things in one take, playing off each other -- it just felt so good. It was exactly what the music was missing." Initially, "We were doing it like my other two records. I listen back to my first two albums, and I can just hear the perfection. We would Melodyne every vocal. It was perfectly in time. I felt like this music deserved something more messy than that, more human." And yes, regarding labor-capital, I'm assuming she had to pay that band.
Very interesting article. I use AI - Chat GPT as a thinking, brainstorming and planning tool. But it's not very good at producing readable, engaging content. And I dread the day all musicians are out of business and AI is churning out pop and jazz and classical music. It could happen. And if it does, it will be a death knell to our culture, our civilization.
maybe AI is the death knell of our culture and it will only be obvious in retrospect...
Yeah, well, I don't know. So far, the way I use AI has been extremely useful and fun to use. But yeah, I see big problems in the future. Technology is a blessing and a curse. The use of smart phones by children is a huge problem. Nobody is talking to their friends face-to-face. I'm 72 and will probably not see how it all turns out. I pray we can tap our creativity and innovation to harness it for a better world. But if nobody needs humans to do work anymore, this thing could backfire on us in a major way.
I trust you've seen the Pixar movie "Wall-E"? I fear (and sorta assume) it's gonna be like that, sadly (and infuriatingly).
I watch Star Trek that gives a lot of hope for the future. They use AI a lot on Star Trek and it seems to help them get more complete information, make decisions and fly faster-than-light spaceships. I would like to see it help streamline things in government. Things cost too much and take too long. Good AI systems could give a better bang for our buck and enable us to do more projects at a lower cost.
i'm in my late 60's, but stay the hell away from stuff that i know deep down is no good.. it is not that AI couldn't be good, but in these megalomaniacs hands - it is bad shit.. refer to ted gioias article on 'dopamine culture' for another insight into it all.. it isn't all it is cracked up to be and our leaders are selling us down the river...
Look, I want to push back on this a bit. I started my business as an independent consultant 40 years ago. I can't imagine I could have achieved the success I did without technology. Computers, databases, the internet, etc. I was able to do a zillion of things by myself that would have taken a team of people to do. Because of the help from technology, I succeeded on my own. If I was starting a business now, I would go ALL-In on AI and find every single way I could use it to add value to my clients. I would still work very hard. But I'd have the tools to work harder and smarter. If I was a musician I'd also use AI to help me with composing, planning, marketing, etc. So, I hope that's the way it goes – that AI will be a great support to all kinds of people and businesses. We all tend to look at the dark side – and there is a dark side, but I think the positives may outweigh the negatives. I could be wrong, but I hope I'm right. AI is just a tool. (and no, ChatGPT did not help me write this!)
i admire your idealism, but i don't share it... all of these things are just tools - yes... in the wrong hands it is much worse... go see the oppenheimer movie for an example.. cheers..
You may be right. On the other hand, I think everyone wants this to work for humanity as a whole. I just bought a new Mac Studio that runs faster and better than any previous Mac. My last one, a Power Mac that I bought 13 years ago cost $2500. I'm assuming AI had something to do with the development of these new, faster and cheaper chips. I am not an idealist. I am an optimist. I assume most people want to do good. And yeah, I get it. Multinational businesses all want to save a lot of money and get filthy rich. And they vote for Trump. Anyway, the question might be, "What can we do about this issue?" vs. moaning and complaining.
thanks... big money is driving AI.. they are to be distrusted right out of the gate, and yet a lot of folks will get sucked into the glossy readouts on it - again, a byproduct of 'big money'.... i would like to crap on all of it because that is what i think of it..
This right here, Damon:
"But why we need a new technology to produce mediocrity, he didn’t explain."
I guess their comeback would be "well, it will get better over time once it gains the experience". But, why is that important at all? Can't they just leave music alone, and let the people using it try and fail on their own for a while? If only to preserve skilled musicians (like yourself) craft? Why anyone would settle for mediocrity baffles the mind. For pop music, I don't really care and I doubt the listener of such music would either. But, with a few prompts similar to "please make me 5 full-length albums with the only inspiration coming from that of The Velvet Underground", this is going to be extremely possible someday, and I don't think it'll be very far into the future. I shuddered and nearly vomited when I heard about the plan to "finish" and release the last remaining Beatles song. I haven't listened, and I hope I never accidentally hear it.
Just as Robert Middleton said in his reply "it could happen". I beg to differ here: it is GOING to happen. And much sooner than we expect it to.
And Robert is also correct on it being a death knell to our culture.
Thanks for your post. I cringe when I hear people say they use "AI" to do any thinking for them. This is different from using a tool. Instead, if we think less, then we are becoming less human.
In the midst of big tech trying their best to take creative power out of the hands of ALL creators and artists, I try to remind myself that, whether the big money is behind it or not, and whether people can actually make a living or not, artists will not stop creating.
Music and art have never been inherently about money or even survival - in so many ways it's about trying to find meaning, justify existence, or simply connecting with others in/out of our own personal worlds - and none of those things will be solved with AI. It feels like it is actively attacking all of these reasons for art, but while the "economics" of being a musician or artist continue to get worse, WE WILL KEEP ARTING AND MUSICING.
As depressed as I am about the state of the world, tech, and the "next generation," I have faith that those deep human needs will continue to find ways to flourish. Whether they are valued at the top or not... A shame that the masses may not prosper, but I believe there will be pockets of humanity that carry the torch and help give each other meaning through artistic expression.
When I get to hang with some younger musicians, actors, artists (I'm 34 but I can def feel the gap between me and 21) I feel mostly encouraged. I hope more and more of us disconnect and only engage with tech in ways that actually serve us. Take the power back.
the thing is - if you are into creating music - this will continue regardless if the money follows or not... i love playing and writing music.. i'm not stopping in spite of the money that does or doesn't follow... i feel like our society has been hallowed out with this obsession and preoccupation with money... instead of it being a medium for exchange, it has gotten all out of whack with the middle people who want it to be the center of everything.. not everyone is into the game of monopoly but it has gotten so bad with these freaks money game obsession, they will stop at nothing to screw everyone else who isn't obsessed the same way they are... music is still a voice for freedom in spite of these freaks... they will do everything they can to ruin that too, but they won't succeed.. our culture may look worse in 20 years then it does now though.. we will be able to thank AI's role for that and those who pushed it too..
Succinctly and well put: it's uncritical cheerleading and relentless optimism that has put us in this mess, we need the tech community to be having serious thoughtful conversations about what the real and long term implications of their work might be on the world.
It’s would be interesting to cross fertilise with the notions of human labour described in this interesting piece and what might map to ‘music’.
https://open.substack.com/pub/braddelong/p/hoisted-from-the-archives-marx-was?r=duozd&utm_medium=ios
Of all the things I’ve heard/seen/read/thought/said about AI, this is probably the most profound and insightful observation yet. It clicks everything into place for me.
Your posts always give me a follow-up idea. I wonder: will generative AI ever experience a headache? Maybe the jump from mediocre to great requires the occasional headache. Its inability to comprehend irony feels somehow related - neurons wired for Up and to the Right optimization rather than whatever ours are wired for...
Ha ha!
So Machover sort of liked the emotionless sample of music he played? I'm reading this Almanach entry on July 9, so I'm a bit late to the party. But did you read the New Yorker piece about the singer-songwriter Lizzy McAlpine?. She said it wasn't until her third album that she actually recorded live with a band. "Finally being in a room with people who are real, and in the same room, and we're recording things in one take, playing off each other -- it just felt so good. It was exactly what the music was missing." Initially, "We were doing it like my other two records. I listen back to my first two albums, and I can just hear the perfection. We would Melodyne every vocal. It was perfectly in time. I felt like this music deserved something more messy than that, more human." And yes, regarding labor-capital, I'm assuming she had to pay that band.
Gosh, this hammer wasn't able to hang my picture on the wall. Hammers are such a waste.
Is this an AI attempt at sarcasm
No, just a reality note about pearl clutching.
“Pearl clutching” isn’t a phrase any people I know use, I will continue to assume these comments are AI
Ha! I love it! "Dada Drummer AI Maniac"